Crusher, no apologies necessary....this is such a heated & emotionally charged subject.  Sad really, it hurts peoples hearts and some are actually thriving on it and others not fully understanding that.  (I certainly don't mean you!)  I see you went golfing and out to dinner last night, sounds like a good time!  I think I am going to go do something fun today too and take my mind off of some of this hard stuff for a day at least, leave it up to the legal eagles....LOL!  Say my prayers and enjoy my life and my blessings, which are many for sure.

Love & peace, Tonka 

Sorry Tonka, didn't think about federal level... forget that we file two sets of papers... I have never filed jointly before either state or fed... so thanks for the clarification.  I agree it will be declared unconstitutional... I was listening to two lawyers talking about it and basically the ballot provision for changes to the constitution are there for additions not subtractions... so I also think that ultimately it will go through the State supreme Court and be over turned again.  The only other recourse for the "other side" is to go to the federal supreme court.  Of course that is scarey too.  I still cannot believe that people don't see this as discrimination plain and simple.......

Tonka,

I also feel that this is inevitable to be over turned.  Like I said, it's just history repeating itself.

I saw For The Bible Tells me so about 2 times publicly and 4 times at home....Got the DVD. I first heard of it in 07 but it wasn't released until January this year.  It is a wonderful documentary that everyone should see, Gay or str8.

Soulpeace!  Ev

Hi Crusher, I am talking about filing on a federal level.  Yes we file jointly and she is head of household, but we cannot get the same tax breaks as a married couple get.  Because on a federal level, even though California has domestic partnership laws, the federal government does not choose to recognize it, so as they say, we have a long way to go baby....!  California is actually one of the states in the forfront, so don't move yet, this will be overturned as this is the first time they have attempted to initiate a change in the Constitution where they actually want to "take away" civil rights away from citizens instead of making them more fair or equal by "giving" equal civil rights to all citizens.  It is unconstitutional and will not fly.  I have faith.  Have you seen us all marching and fighting to be heard?  We won't go away quietly.  I am going to buy the movie "For the BibleTells me so."  Have any of you seen it?  I have heard it is good. I'll find out the website and post it.  I am sending all my love and prayers to all of you and I hope you all have had a happy weekend.

TonkaSpirit 

You might want to check on the joint returns, as registered domestic partners in CA can file jointly.  I know a couple who did and they are not married.  When I had to put out monies for my insurance as our district didn't pay the full amount, I had to pay taxes on the amount of the insurance premium that went toward her coverage as it was considered income, even though I paid extra out of my salary for coverage for her and the two kids.  Now, the district pays 100% of the costs, whether single, family or just two, such as my son and I... so there are no taxes taken out... as it is the same cost no matter how many people are on it...

Yes you are right, we are not considered equal, I prefer to think of us as Higher Level Thinkers.... so in reality we aren't equal, we are better... LOL!

 California voted for discrimination, it is really that simple... this is why as soon as I can afford to do so, I am outta here!!

and it is not about a piece of paper, we have the piece of paper, we got that when Galvan Newsome made history a few years back....We do not have the same rights as heteros.  In order for me and our children to have health insurance coverage, even though we are supposedly covered under the "domestic partnership" laws the federal government does not recognize it as legal, so each month we have to pay a "tax" on what our health insurance is supposedly worth each month and it is approx. 145/ a month and goes up each year.  If if were legally married, there would be no tax, it would be free.  She is a BridgeBuilder and is in a Union and pays her dues and has for 20 years, but because she is with a woman and not a man, we pay.  We also do not get to file joint income tax returns, which affects our refunds, our children's college funds, etc.  There are many areas, mostly at the federal level, that we do not share equal status and these  things need to change, because until they do, we are being treated as second-class citizens and are discriminated against. And this should not be tolerated as we are wonderful humans beings created by God like everyone else here.

Tonka 

I'm remembering when I was in a long term relationship and we both felt that eventhough we weren't allowed to marry, we were married in our hearts and we didn't need any piece of paper to prove it.  However, I do have to admit that I would want all that heteros are entitled to from the ceremony to the benefits to standing before God in a holy union otherwise that's just saying in bold letters that we truly are not equal and we don't deserve what everyone else deserves.  This is preposterous and outdated. Unfortunately we have to wait until politics and religion catch up with common sense.

Soulpeace!  Ev.

Hi Crusher,

I think it is more an issue that I personally don't want to be told that I cannot have the "right" to be married, that I am any Less than anyone else.  It doesn't mean you have to be married, just like if you are straight, you don't have to get married.

I agree that it will be turned over and is already in the process.

Tonka 

Thank you Hyer for the information regarding the Call to Prayer....

tonka,

I agree it is extremely disappointing that people in this day and age would vote for discrimination... but that is what they did... they instilled fear and used children and supposedly our "negative" influence that KNOWING about gays and gay marriage would corrupt them to promote their position...

The fact that the Mormon Church was behind this initiative is equally disappointing.. I know many Mormons and know they do not support discrimination and yet they still support their church.  They are legistlating moral judgements and what I think they fail to see is that equal rights will prevail and yes, as hyer states, it will take time. 

I believe that the courts of California will have to overturn this decision by the voters, simply on the grounds that it is an equal rights issue and that a ballot initiative cannot gut the core of the constitution of CA.  It would be like re-writing the Bill of Rights...

We do have to remember that inter-racial marriage was illegal at one time...

My inner conflict has been that marriage is a religious institution, therefore it should fall under the separation of church and state clause.  People associate marriage with religion, therefore their beliefs are such that they only see it as a joining of man and woman, so when they want to dissolve that promise, then the church, not the courts should determine that process.  When the government, ie the courts, took over the dissolutions of marriage, then religion was now in control of marriage.  This never should have happened... however, it did and now our community wants what straights have...

I guess my struggle is why?  Why do we want this so badly, so we can be part of main stream America?  Around 65% of all marriages end in divorce.... how many gay relationships last a life-time?  Is it the paper, the registration that commits people to each other or is it their character?  If all we really want is the right to jointly have children, have access and rights to be beneficiaries, medical decisions and all of that, then we have this already...well at least in California.   I also wonder, how is anyone going to know or be able to tell who is married or not?  Is everyone now going to have to carry a "marriage" card around so hospitals, emergency services can tell? 

This whole subject has me quite perplexed... I have mixed feelings as you can see...

I pray that someday we will all have equal rights, I also pray that people will do what is right even when no one is looking... unfortunately I am not sure I will see either in my lifetime...

This is something that a woman on GCN posted.  I beleive this is another way that we can support GLBTQ on a spiritual level.  Note: This woman is a STR8 woman which shows that there are some people who "GET" what equality standds for.

Tonka,

Although it is a great disappointment that they band gay marriages, If we look at the bigger picture, it is only history repeating itself.  Remember there was a time where women didn't have equality?  Remember the time where African Americans didn't have equality? Now it's Homosexuals.  Why? All because of ignorance. Some people just take longer to understand that everyone is entitled to equality no matter what their personal beliefs are.  It's hard for them to get past diversity.  It's hard for them to wake up to the fact that just like God created diversity in race and gender, he also created variance in sexuality. 

 Yes, it's taking a while and you would think that people would get it by now but the fact still remains that acceptance is knows no speed limit.  Know this.....it's just a matter of time!  The awakening is gradually taking effect!  Yes, some may never except it just like some are still prejudice and some still believe that a women's place is in the bedroom and the kitchen. They have a right to their own beliefs but  just as OT an Crusher mentioned about "United We Stand" from our countries political perspective, we also have to stand together from a gay perspective and educated people who we really are and that our sexuality isn't the  sum total of our being.  We put our pants on one leg at a time just like they do!  We pay taxes just like they do and we deserve all the rights just like they do! 

I thank God for all of the activists that are fighting (verbally) to win this war on division and we need to support them in anyway we can so this change will speed up.  The way I  see it, it is inevitable.

OK let me get down off my podium..I must have had  one of my "running for president" moments! lol. So chin up! Hang in there! OK?

Soulpeace!  Ev

Yuuk!  Proposition 8 passed!  Banning gay marriage.....in California after all of those people got married.  They are saying that they will honor the licenses that have already been issued however, but no one else will be allowed to get married.  How is that equality?

Tonka 

I hope that our next president understands that with great power comes great responsibility and that the gift he has been given, the honor that we the people have bestowed upon him comes with great expectations.   It is an historic day, for all of the nations of this earth.  There can be no more doubt that hard work, determination and perserverance will lead to great things.... that as Americans we have more opportunities than anyother nation in the world and that we should never, NEVER, take that for granted.  There should not be anymore talk of color lines or minority vs majority, we are Americans, plain and simple.  We have to take all of the ethnic divisions out of our language... no more Asian Americans, African Americans, Hespanic Americans, German, Dutch or Russian Americans... Gay Americans, Bi-Americans, Hetero-Americans....we have to just be Americans... if we truly want to unify this great nation. 

We are one nation, Under God, Indivisible... with Liberty and Justice for ALL...