Hmm that's interesting...

I like men just because they are 'men'.  I love the hugging, petting and fondling and groping.  But no intercourse unless he talking with his fingers.  The 5 'oclock shadow against my face is something else I like about men.   I'm was always the one doing the work because I just got fed up with being dissatisfied... that's when I knew something was wrong with my - um bi-sexuality.  I trully don't believe I am bisexual.. or else I just lean more toward the lesbian side.  Once I fell asleep reading a Playgirl magazine.... but you'll never catch me doing that reading a men's magazine.  How Gay is that!  Well gotta go - I love this topic and I am happy too that this thread was created.  Bi-sexuality is part of the journey too... we help each other along the way.

  That's interesting, I 'm going to try that.  I passed the test.

I want to commend this as a topic. You dont find people willing to open up about this often. As a bisexual I have been on both ends of exceptance. A look of repulsion from my lesbain friends and a look of joy from the men I dated.

I know women who say they are bisexual, but are only interseted in women under very specific conditions. I feel women like these are the ones who give people like me a bad name.

Want to know if someone is a true bisexual, try this. . . it works everytime! Ask them to close their eyes and imagine their wedding tell them to look down the isle and tell you if a man or a woman waits there. I have tried this often and unless i am in a serious relationship with someone, I absolutely never see a gender, just a person that I know I am in love with. Women who are just pretending will often see one or the other genders regardless of relationship status.

I hope that someday bisexuals will be looked at with the same respect that any other member of the gay community is. We just have to make a stand for ourselves. So again thank you for the topic post!!!

Hello.  I'm new here today and am glad to have found this post.  I'm bi-sexual and used to wonder if I were trully lesbian.  I have had 7 boy--friends in my 38 yrs. of life and for me it's been a lot like playing doctor.  Ok... this is going to get pretty confusing so I'll try and describe it the best I can.  I like men, I look at them desiringly.  But I don't like sleeping with them.  I have tried and tried and it's always fell short of my expectations.  No matter the size or level of experience they've had. 

If I were to keep things on a purely Intellectual level then I'd say that I've been in love with a guy mentally more than anything.   To me, men are very simple.  It's like opening up a  big present and finding something very simple inside, I get bored easily.  I used to joke that I must be the only woman who fell asleep reading Playgirl, that was before I found there were other women who I identified with.  

I spend about 90% of my day checking out women.  It's almost masculine in attraction.  It's like every nerve ending that I have in my body gets involved and that includes my brain and my heart.  I notice the physique, when a women tosses her hair and I can smell the sweet scent of it.  Her eyes and her how she gets into a car or touches my arm.  How intelligent she is.  The color of a woman's lips are the same color as her labia.  I don't know myself but I wonder about it. 

When I think about men I think about the fun things we've done together,  how  big they were.  But I never like sleeping with them.  It has always fell short, it's like I have to 'help them out' just for me to be satisfied.   Sometimes I don't even bother with it, I just try and get my boy--friend satisfied because I'd rather do that then be pissed because I didn't like it, knowing there's nothing they can do about it.  

Know what, before I realized I could be bi-sexual or even a lesbian I had labeled myself as insatiable.  That I was hard to please.  

I have had one relationship with a girl, we were the same age and I found out that I was way more into her than she was into  me.  For her it was a phase, for me it was an experience I wished I could relive even 20 years later.  It's been a little longer than that now and I still remember.  It's the only sexual experience that I actually enjoyed.  I'm 38 years old now and I wonder where my life has been.  Why did it take so long for me to catch-on.  Now, I'm stepping out of my own way and allowing me to be me.  And, I guess I'll see where it takes me... into bi-sexuality or lesbian-ism.  I don't know which... though I've been approached by lesbians throughout the years who swore up and down that I was lesbian too.  I was in my early 20's and hadn't even considered the possibility despite my experiences.

So.. I don't know how to judge what one is or isn't, I'm having a tough time figuring that out for myself but one thing is for sure.  If swimming to the deep end of your soul is the goal, you'll never get there if you don't get in the water. 

In response to many of the previous posts - I think the real issue is that somewhere deep inside most people have trouble connecting with people who are different from them. Sexuality is one of those things that is harder to conceptualize other people's feelings on if you don't feel the same way.  For example, I have a friend Ben who is gay and he says that he really doesn't expect to have many close friendships with lesbians because he just doesn't get it - he doesn't relate. So, there is that.

Plus when it comes to relationships, there is the fact that if you are bi, you have a larger dating pool than people who are straight or lesbian. Boyfriends of straight girls don't fear losing their girl to a female she is friends with. By the same token, girlfriends of lesbians don't fear losing their girl to any of her male friends or co-workers. I think when someone learns that the girl that like is bi, they feel they have more competition and that scares them. But really, if you notice, all of those are just trust issues.

For me, trust and openness are really important. If I am in a relationship with someone, then I am in a relationship with just them and that is/should be clear to the rest of the world. That is just how I am. I know that some people have romantic relationships just on different levels with more than one person, and I don't mean to be saying anything negative about that..... (Well, as long as everyone involved is aware of everything and everyone else's relationship status. Cheating however is not cool because it causes others unneccessary pain). All that being said, I don't think that being bisexual has anything to do with that.  

I've heard people say mean things like that "bisexual people are just being selfish." I believe (and think I prove it scientifically!) that sexuality really is not an either or issue, but rather a continnum with some people closer to one end of the spectrum than others and with someone who truly is completely attracted to both sexes being in the middle.  Someone's sexuality doesn't  cause them to be selfish.  Selfishness  and  other  traits  are  not really related to sexuality.

I think it probably is true that many people who might really fit more into the bisexual category identify themselves as either straight or lesbian to avoid the negative social repercussions associated with being labeled as bi. Maybe in time, as awareness and tolerance grow this will be less of an issue.

In response to Raven1- I think that whether you are bisexual or not is something that only you can know for sure. If you had not said that you were married to man, then I would say that feeling 95 % into women sounds much closer to the lesbian end of the spectrum than bi. But, the marriage to a man sounds much more bisexual. Only being 5% attracted to someone you are married to doesn't seem like much attraction at all. I don't know your whole story. Perhaps you used to be more attracted to men, and time has changed you some? Or maybe you have felt the all along and married for social group reasons? You mentioned being Southern Baptist. Trust me..having grown up in Arkansas, and graduated from Ouachtia Baptist (where there are actually clauses in all athletic and faculty contracts about this).... you are not alone. I know many women who marry or stay married to men for social group reasons alone. Not saything that is your case - because you said you and your husband are really close. 

I wanted to let you know that if there is some chance you are just staying married for Baptist reasons, you are by no means alone. Many Baptist bisexuals and lesbians are just under contracts or social obligations that make them scared to really talk about their sexuality. In many cases, for people born into this religion(/culture if you're from AR)  coming out might cost them all relationships with family & friends, plus grad school /job recommendations, would have huge financial repurcussions, and if some new AR laws get passed they might not ever be able to adopt or the state might take away any children they have already adopted. Sorry..... I feel like the end of this post may be more about my life/experiences and less about the questions that you asked..... With the possibility of laws like this being  passed  in  my home state and the fact the the petitioners are Southern Baptist, this subject has been on my mind a lot lately. When I was thinking about your post (just being Southern Baptist & bisexuality) it seemed like it might be related a little. Sorry the reply is so long and rambling!
 

I completely agree with Alice's statement in that following one's heart is critical to one's happiness.  As I read the responses I attempted to measure myself against respondents, wondering if I fit or fell outside the criteria of 'bi-sexual'.  I now realize that I am, perhaps, an engima.

I have been married to a man for over two decades who is a trusted best friend.  However that does not preclude the fact that my emotional and physical connections are and will always remain with the female gender.  I love women, utterly and completely.  But I chose to follow social mores to adhere to Southern Baptist beliefs, and with each passing year I've questioned my decision.

Honestly I enjoy the relationship with my husband; he's easy to get along with and is a very supportive individual.  And more importantly he respects my orientation; he's been clear about that from day one.  Because he accepts my need to have a special woman in my life I feel that I am exceptionally lucky because I can pursue that.

Now getting back to the initial topic of bi-sexuality.  I have and still feel that I am not a true bi-sexual simply because I'm not someone who's 50/50, meaning I don't like women and men equally.  Instead I'm 95% into women and the remaining 5% is left for men.

So do you and other readers think I fit the definition of a bi-sexual?  I eagerly await and look forward to responses.

BrightEyes said:

I know you don't mean it; you put it in the light of funny........ I am just tossing it out in a slippery slop -- straight can't judge lesbian, lesbian can judge bi?   

I have recently started dating again and I've had a couple of women terminate contact once I told them my true feelings (it's what is inside, not the anatomy).  I don't for a minute think that others who fall on either end of the Kinsey scale are superficial enough to pick a partner exclusively for the anatomy, but it is the easiest way I have found to explain it to someone who hasn't experienced it. 

To me it all comes down to finding the person who fits me best.   Having said that, it wasn't something I was open to 5 yrs ago, so I can certainly understand how someone else has their own limits. 

Seems to be another case of don't judge a woman until you've walked in her Manolos or Birkenstocks.   :)

 Sheila

p.s. If anyone is going on the Mexican Riviera cruise solo, shoot me a note or post to this thread (below) so we can get you added to the contact list:

http://www.olivia.com/Connect/groups/78/Topic/6475/ShowThread.aspx 

At first I was a bit apprehensive to join this group becasue I am bi-sexual.   Boy am I glad that I did now!  I have recently come out to my family and friends about my sexuality.  I love women and men. 

My mother is a lesbian and she has taught me the most beautiful lesson that I have learned in my life so far.  Do not put boundaries on love.  Be open to it no matter if it is with a woman or a man.  Thank God for moms!!

Thanks for starting this thread!  I'm single after my first serious lesbian relationship (which lasted almost 4 yrs).   I am open to dating the best person who fits with me, whether it be a man or a woman, but I feel a closer connection to women and I'm more inclined to put myself in situations to meet women and surround myself with women rather than men at this point in my life. 

I am interested in a serious, committed relationship and the quality of the relationship is a bigger issue (to me - due to my attraction for both) than the gender of the person.

Your comments on being at peace with your identity (I'm paraphrasing, but the last two posters mentioned this), also hit home with me.  I think the confusion I felt about my identity was another factor in a depression I went through a couple of years ago.  There were other factors (remodeling the house, conflict in the relationship, etc) but I struggled initially with the labels, although I felt like I was fine with them.  I've since made peace with the labels, but the home repairs - they still give me nightmares.  :)

Regards -
Sheila
 

Brewmax -  I agree. I've found that you need to be the one to place value on yourself and it's wise to avoid letting other people do that for you. I think that, mostly, people take the cue from you and value you as much as you do yourself.

In many circles, not only those who identify as "bi" are ostracized, but also those who have ever even been with a man on a sexual basis.  Some women who are lesbians and have never been in a sexual encounter or relationship/marriage with a man, find it repulsive to even consider, and look upon those women who dated men before coming out as lesbians as somehow not as good or "qualified" to be true lesbians.  Sounds silly now, doesn't it?  But not so many years ago. . . .

Thankfully, with more women coming out of the closet over time and explaining that they simply followed the social mores of their time by dating or marrying a man in their youth or when they were not comfortable or even fully aware of their true sexuality, this attitude has been changing.  Even today, those who are in fully committed long term relationships with women are often looked upon with amazement or dismay if/when they say that while they clearly realize now that they want and were meant to be with a woman they never hated men or sex with men.

The "bi" issue is bigger and broader because of notions about commitment, disease, etc. and because some women don't want to ever think that their female lover/partner might ever leave them for a man.  In many cases, reactions are based on education (not necessarily formal) and maturity levels.

As with lesbians/gays, the best way to overcome inaccurate perceptions is to simply be a good and decent person and let others learn by seeing/experiencing that you are "okay" if not "uniquely wonderful".  Perceptions don't change quickly.  Look at the struggle transgendered folks have endured on the path to greater understanding. Keep the faith and, most of all, be true to yourself.

to 'thatstraightgirl' - wow, you raise very interesting issues.  as a lesbian myself, i wonder 'how did i get to labeling myself a lesbian?' and i think i put myself on the kinsey scale.  have you heard of that?  it's that 1-6 scale where on one end are those who are 'exclusively hetero' in thought, action, attractions, dreams, etc. and the other end where there are those who are 'exclusively gay' in thought, action, dreams.  3's and 4's are probably the bi's. although a 5 (mostly lesbian but occas. attraction towards oppos sex) is not 'repulsed' by the opposite sex.  i find 1's and 6's are usually repulsed at the thought of sex with oppos sex (if gay) or same sex (if straight).  the repulsion is probably largely 'biological', btw, and thus, not completely under the control of the individual.

so, you see, it's not black and white for many of us.  the problem with being bi is that it is the last in the GLBT soup to become fully visible.  why?  i haven't read or studied much on the issue, however, i have almost 20 years of studying human behavior and experience coaching and counseling others and i suspect that it is because people like to put people into their either/or boxes because it gives them a sense of security. 

so, another way of saying it is that there are probably people out there who label themselves as gay whose feelings (and maybe even actions) are truly 4's or 5's and likely some folks who are not truly straight who label themselves that way, for the obvious advantages.

i know many criticize 'labeling' but it's a reality and it's not always a bad thing.  having some 'security' in this world is reassuring.  labeling oneself can also be a 'commitment' of sorts to live a certain way, so that people can count on you to be a certain way.

many lesbians fear dating, getting involved with or committing themselves to a woman who labels herself bi because it appears that bisexual women are MORE threating to their bond than if the bi-woman was just attracted to women.  When you are Bi ALL other folks are potential suitors.  Whether it is logical or not, lesbian women feel this on an emotional level that is hard to overcome.  And, many lesbians have been thru relationships with bi-women where the issue of 'attraction to men' overcame the relationship.

we humans are good at isolating ourselves and good at feeling special/unique.  when you say you don't know any bi-women who are, like you, monogamous, that seeing yourself as a 'minority within a minority' no doubt has you feeling very alone.  but you needn't be.

as i said to a client yesterday tho, if you have a relationship requirement of monogamy, the issue of 'commitability' is more important than if a person is lesbian or bi.  i don't care who you say you are, but, when it comes down to it, are you able to keep a commitment or your word?  are you consistently who you say you are?  in the realm of relationships, this is what i care about and those who expect commitment back in a relationship should care about.

i am sure there are bisexual women out there like yourself who want a monogamous relationship and aren't overly 'sexually' identified (afterall, you call yourself a bi-sexual but i bet your attraction to women is equally - if not more so - emotional),  just as there are lesbians out there who can't be monogamous (or choose not to be) because of whatever...i say sexually identified, because some of those internet dating ads or personal ads for 'wanting a 3-some' in a hetero couple or a 'bi-curious' person may be interested for any number of reasons OTHER THAN a real, flesh and blood, 'relationship' with another woman.  for ex: some women are debasing themselves to make their husband happy, some women actually enjoy some 'swinging' in their marriage, some women are sex addicts, to name just a few reasons for these behaviors.

i hope that if there are other women or men for that matter reading this and they are part of a gay partner/bi partner relationship (or know someone who is), that they would post here and share their experiences.

your statement that you have found very few bi's who are monogamous?  i don't know what to say about that.  it may be a stereotype or generalization.  however, like all folk, within each community there are folks who are more monoagmous than others. 

so, it is true that bisexuals are the least visible and feared, for the reasons i stated above, like any 'group' that is misunderstood, and lumped into categories of generalized behavior.  i don't know the ultimate solution to that, other than that you need to remain true to yourself and surround yourself with friends and family who 'get' you and love you for who you are.  trust you can do this for yourself.

ultimately, your most important job is just knowing yourself and what you need/want/require.  the problems most of us have concern lack of clarity about who we are/what want and how to get it and 'settling' or, giving in and committing to someone who doesn't want to be monogamous.  no you can't control others and, you can do all you can and still life can throw u a curve at times, but when you know who you are and you believe in yourself, and you have a great support system, you can weather all of life's crises and become stronger and wiser because of them not in spite of them!

you need to get clear on who u are, what you want/need/require and you need to figure out how to get it.  where do you want to be in 5 years?  in a similar relationship space or, somewhere else?  once u get clear then you need to give yourself what u want.  it's that simple and that challenging!  if you want more info on how to help yourself with this let me know.

xoxoxo,

babz 

ya ya....semi-teasing.....I like Alice, she is like us mood-swinging.......do we infer... zero-sexuality is clean?   

I know you don't mean it; you put it in the light of funny........ I am just tossing it out in a slippery slop -- straight can't judge lesbian, lesbian can judge bi?